MatchPlay

92. Will Smith, Founder of Lead EDU and Charter Oak Advisory Hi, I’m Scot Cooper and welcome to the Tales From the Trail podcast by MatchPlay. In this episode Chris Norris, the head coach of the College of William and Mary men’s soccer program and I welcome one of his former players, Will Smith. As you will hear, Will made the most of his opportunity as a student-athlete on the field, on campus, and abroad. Among many other highlights, he went on to co-found a residential youth soccer academy in Liberia called LEAD MFA (monroviafa.com). There’s more to the story obviously, thank you for listening to hear the rest. Thank you to Will and Coach Norris for being great guests. Summary Will Smith shares his journey as a college soccer player at William & Mary, discussing his recruitment process, the challenges he faced, and the impact of his leadership. He highlights the importance of self-belief, resilience, and personal growth throughout his career. Will also reflects on the role of other sports, such as golf, in shaping his mindset and skills. He discusses memorable moments, including defeating the number one ranked team and the lessons he learned from his experiences. Will concludes by sharing his research project in Liberia and the transition to life after college. Will Smith shares his journey of discovering the potential of soccer in Liberia and starting a leadership academy. He talks about his experiences playing with George Weah and the transformative power of soccer in the country. Will also discusses the challenges and successes of expanding the academy to Morocco. He then transitions to his current role at Charter Oak Advisory, where he helps design and implement impact programs for various organizations. Will concludes by discussing the possibility of future academies and his commitment to creating positive change. Takeaways Self-belief and resilience are crucial for success in college sports. Playing multiple sports can provide valuable skills and perspectives. Leadership styles should be personalized to meet the needs of individuals. Maintaining momentum and addressing challenges are key to achieving success. College sports can provide valuable lessons and skills for future endeavors. Soccer has the transformative potential to empower young people and create positive change in communities. Building strong relationships and partnerships with local individuals and organizations is crucial for success in international development work. Curiosity, resilience, and the ability to overcome adversity are valuable skills learned through sports that can be applied to other areas of life. Empowering others and giving them the opportunity to lead is essential for sustainable and impactful initiatives. Understanding the cultural context and adapting programs accordingly is key when working in different countries and communities. Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Background 02:02 Assessing Will's Potential as a Player 08:40 Choosing William & Mary and the College Soccer Experience 19:01 Developing Self-Belief and Leadership Skills 24:46 Highlights of Will's College Soccer Career 41:11 Research Project in Liberia and Transitioning to Life After College 46:00 Discovering the Potential of Soccer in Liberia 51:31 Starting the Leadership Academy in Liberia 58:21 Expanding to Morocco 01:14:42 Transitioning to Charter Oak Advisory 01:17:22 Future Plans and Expansion Chris Norris (00:02.895) Will was like most prospective student athletes out there. He contacted us because he had done some research and thought that William & Mary might be a good fit for him. He had the good fortune of having an older brother who attended William & Mary. And he had been to visit because of that. You know, his brother had a good experience as a student. Like for those reasons, Will thought that William and Mary might work for him. Um, it, Will's, uh, he's always been kind of, or at least from that age on, it was always a bit precocious. And so, you know, he came across as, as mature and, um, ready and, uh, impressive just as a human being. And, um, that certainly helped. sort of smooth the process for us and encourage us to get to know him a little bit better. T Will Smith (03:25.782) We 100% should. If you're ever in Williamsburg, Virginia, BBC, that's that. Um, but no, I can give, uh, I can give my recollection, Chris, thank you for all those kind words and it's fun to think back on this. Like I haven't honestly thought about it in a long time. So, um, my personal experience. So Chris mentioned, I mean, so I had my, the brother we're talking about is the names actually Chris is a little confusing, but my brother, um, Chris Norris (03:34.392) Hahaha Scot Cooper (03:35.294) That's right. Will Smith (03:55.15) had been at William & Mary and he'd gotten to know Chris. He'd also gotten to know Al Albert. And I'd gone down there just as like, he's seven years older than me. So I was like a 13, 14 year old kid and really enjoyed my time visiting him. And I always knew I wanted to go south. I grew up in Avon, Connecticut, just outside Hartford. And I'd lived kind of enough winters. I was ready to get into the bit of the warmer weather. And so William & Mary was high up my list right from the beginning. And then I was really fortunate to have another brother, three older brothers, another brother who had gone through this process for ice hockey. So, and he'd gone through a very different sort of process where he was in Sports Illustrated when he was 13. He was very well known as a really high quality hockey player and everybody was calling him. And he was just an amazing mentor for me through this process. He's four years older than me. And... He encouraged me early on to make a list and I, I get asked this question actually quite a bit, like by parents now today who are, who have kids who are thinking about trying to play different sports in college, like what, what sort of process should they go through? And, and this was hugely helpful for me. And I tell everybody to do this, which is to build three different lists of 10 different, of 10 schools for each list. One list being purely focused on academics. Where do you want to be from an academic perspective? One list purely focused on athletics, whatever sport it is that you're playing, where you want to be from a sport perspective. And then one list. And I think like people, or at least when I was doing it, I was like, this isn't as important, but I really think this is critical. One list from a social perspective, like what type of place do you want to be from a social perspective? And so I did that and William and Mary was in the top three of all three of those. Um, for me. So it was quickly one that I realized, okay, this is one that I should prioritize. I was really fortunate that my brother had known Chris and Al. And so I think he reached out to Al and said, Hey, you should pay attention to my younger brother and, um, Norris, I'm not sure. I think it was like, we had a showcase that I got to go to in North Carolina or in Florida with my club. And that was when you first saw me. And yeah, I was doing the outreach. So that was what was different from my brother's experience was like, I was trying to get seen. And as Chris said, I was small for my position. Will Smith (06:21.326) particularly athletic, like not, didn't have a bunch of speed and probably on paper wasn't an obvious candidate to play at like a top 25 division one level. But I had a lot of self belief. I felt like I could compete at that level. I wanted that challenge. Having seen my brother as a student athlete, I knew what I was getting myself into and he, he played hockey at Boston college. So the top that you could get in that, in that sport. And it really is like a job when you're playing at that level. And I'd seen that and I wanted that. I was, I knew that. And that's something that not everybody wants, right? There's some kids who are thinking about playing college soccer or any college sport, and then when they realize the rigor of it, maybe it's not right for them. And that's also okay. But I knew I was. I think like Chris said, I was kind of, maybe because I had three older brothers, I was like mature for my age and saw that this was something I wanted to do. And, uh, yeah. So was doing outreach to a ton of different schools. It wasn't just William and Mary. William and Mary was right at the top of my list. Um, I was also looking at schools that I felt were not as difficult to get into academically, maybe not as quality from a soccer perspective, and then certain, certain ones that were perhaps at the same level. even better from a soccer perspective, reaching out to schools like Duke and UNC and Wake Forest that historically have our perennial powerhouses in soccer, not getting answers from them. Wake Forest in particular, I really that was like the other one that I was really interested in never got an answer. And then we beat them freshman year and that felt really good. But, but yeah, it ultimately came down to Chris and the staff. Scot Cooper (08:02.939) Thanks for watching. Will Smith (08:11.086) were offered me a small scholarship in the beginning. And I decided that was where I wanted to be. So that's kind of the process that we went. I also went for a visit that was really important. Chris came and picked me up from the airport in Richmond. Every time I fly out of there, I think of that trip, Chris. And that was kind of the start of my William & Mary journey. And my William & Mary journey, 100% was the start of my professional journey. Scot Cooper (08:40.007) So when you say you talked about self belief, like where do you think that came from? Scot Cooper (08:46.982) Did you realize it at the time or you're just looking back, you understand what it was then? Will Smith (08:55.679) I think. So when you're one of four boys and you're the youngest and everybody has a different talent that they're really good at, you have to find a way to keep up. And so when I was little, I was like trying to be seen and trying to keep up with my older brothers. And so then when I would get onto the soccer field or onto the golf course, because I also played golf at William & Mary for two semesters, get onto the tennis court, whatever, like with people my age, I would have a confidence because I was like, I can... I've been competing with my older brother, who's this like incredible athlete. Like I feel like I can compete at this level. Um, so I think I, that was, it was sort of, I was fortunate to grow up in a family where that it was built into me through that. Um, but of course, at the same time, you all, like all of us live with self doubt all the time, right? So I can, I can give an example. If I can move into when I was a player at William and Mary, um, freshman year, I didn't play for the first four games. And since I was 10 years old, I'd been the captain of my teams and a key player. And it was really, really challenging for me. And I reached out again to my brother, the hockey player. So this is like, again, having access to a mentor and somebody who's been there and experienced it was so key for me. And it was such a privilege. And I was experiencing a lot of self doubt and just saying like, it's tough. There are 10 seniors. I think there were three center backs. who kind of were probably above me on the totem pole. And he said to me, and I think I've told you the story, Chris, said to me, you gotta start treating every single practice like it's a game and make it really difficult for them not to give you time. And so that's what I did. And there was a transition that happened really quickly, where I think he gave me time in the fifth game, and then I started from the sixth game on through the rest of my career. And... Will Smith (10:54.146) Just that guidance from my brother and that nudge and that also belief from an external perspective, like somebody else telling me it's possible, definitely helped bring that self-belief back and that courage to try. Scot Cooper (11:10.35) As you're going through your career, did you have other moments of self-doubt, you know, even though you were, you know, starting and, you know, what, how did you maintain the level that you had to maintain to, to hold onto that spot? Will Smith (11:22.03) Mm-hmm. Will Smith (11:25.686) Yeah. A couple of things are popping in mind. There's also another moment that happens right in that period that I'm talking about, which is, so Chris gave me time in the fifth game. It was like maybe 10, 15 minutes. And then before the sixth game of the season, I could be getting, maybe it was the game or I think I'm right about the timing. Um, I, Chris pulled the whole group together. So I was, I remember I was a freshman in a team with 10 seniors and I still, I was the same as I am today where I'm very curious and I'm constantly asking questions. And in that setting, um, you're, you get a lot of flack from the older guys when you're constantly asking questions out at training, um, around the group. And, but at the same time, what was my biggest strength as a player, I would argue was my ability to communicate and help organize the group, um, and which kind of translated into like a leadership function, but as a freshman on a team with 10 seniors, it was a little intimidating to speak up and, and play the way that I would normally play, which also then brought the best out of me physically. Like if I wasn't speaking on the field, I would be a little timid as a player too. And Chris brought the group together and said to the guys, this is before the sixth game, he said, Will is going to start at center back and he's going to help organize the group. And if anybody has a problem with that, they should come have a conversation with me. And it was before the pregame training, before that game, that just gave me this huge wave of confidence. You know? Um, I felt super empowered and I didn't think about this in the moment. Like I felt confident based on that. I was so nervous, but looking back on that, I think that was a huge empowering moment for me where once I got through the first game and performed well and we won the game. And, you know, I just like the confidence would build from there. And I was like, no, I'm meant to do this because that's what the head coach wants for me. So that was really important. The other thing you asked about, like, so you're starting and you're, and you're trying to maintain that self-belief over time. I was always really ambitious as well. Like when I was, when I finished my freshman year, I was like, I want to play in the MLS that was kind of my thinking that was a goal then. Um, which maybe if you look at it at the moment, like could have almost been laughable, you know, I was just like, Barely maintaining my space, but our team was very good freshman year. We went to the sweet 16. Um, Will Smith (13:44.798) And I think we're as high as like number 12 in the country or something, but I was like barely in that team to get to the MLS, you have to be a top player in one of those teams. So, um, but because that was my ambition. And again, because I had people close to me who were pursuing similar pursuits in their own career, in their own career paths. Um, I feel like I was always pushing. Um, and then there were other guys around me, Roche and Patel. I don't know if he's been on here yet, but Roche and one of my best friends and, um, eventually co-captain, we played four years together alongside each other. We would push each other because we were living together, um, and, and trying to achieve, you know, so I think. Always trying to achieve and then to answer your question on self-belief. Yeah. Sophomore, junior years, we weren't very good. I think sophomore year we were about 500 junior year. We were like five wins, 12 losses. And I was the captain junior year and we had that performance and it was, you know, that, that lack of belief starts to creep in and you think, am I capable of leading a team that's going to be high quality? Um, but yeah, I think. Chris and the coaching staff did a really good job of encouraging us, letting us know that we had the capability within us. And then we did a good job also of pushing each other to the point where senior year we were as high as number five in the country. We were probably one of the better teams that William & Mary's ever had, but then faltered towards the end. Scot Cooper (15:19.59) Norris, what do you remember about all this? Chris Norris (15:23.979) Yeah, I mean, that's very much how I remember it. I mean, I remember specifically, you know, Will didn't, Will got into the team largely for that one reason. We felt like we had a really good group. He's mentioned several times that it was senior-laden. We had graduated the conference player of the year, the year before. So we weren't... thinking that we were necessarily gonna be good enough to have the kind of year that we ultimately had. But that group, I mean, you know, you talk about the whole being greater than the sum of the parts. And probably for me in my time, that group epitomizes that cliche better than any other group that I've had. I mean, we just had so many guys step into really important roles and have great years. I mean, you know, years that were the best years of their career or just really impactful in terms of the role that they filled for the team. And, you know, Will had a really specific function in that group. We had one of the other guys who had one of those career years was Derek Buckley and was ultimately Will's partner at Centerback. And it was a tremendous partnership. because Derek is incredibly athletic and he was the guy that, you know, hit people and headed the ball and ran people down. And then Will was next to him kind of pulling the strings and organizing. And you know, the two other guys that Will referred to were both seen, that also played center back, were both seniors. And we ultimately moved one to right back. That was probably his more natural position anyway, but he had had. a great couple of years playing as another undersized center back for us, Mike D'Annuso. And then Nick Orosco was the other one and Nick was capable of playing in midfield. So I moved Nick deep into midfield. And sometimes you do things like that, it doesn't work. And in this case, it literally, everybody bought in and it came together incredibly well. Scot Cooper (17:38.61) Right, so Will went from this, I guess, not widely recruited, I guess is fair to say, player and then he turned into basically a four-year starter. Chris Norris (17:55.575) Well, I mean, he was the conference defender of the year, senior year. He captained the team to an NCAA tournament. And then as a freshman, he wasn't technically the captain, but he was the vocal organizer and leader, certainly in the back, and that team won the conference and like Will said, went to the Sweet 16. Scot Cooper (18:20.102) Yeah, I just wanted to get to like, you know, the mindset that you had, you know, delve into that a little more about, you know, you overcame, you know, through the words of your brother and Norris and Roche and all these other guys that were helping, you know, helping you along the way and how you, you know, grew as a person and your mindset changed and maybe not changed. But you know what I'm getting at there. Like How did it evolve from being a senior in high school to being a key contributor really early on in your career? And then just maintaining that. Will Smith (19:01.822) Yeah. I think one of the things I think about a lot today in my current work is, is leadership and like, is leadership developed or is it, do you have it from early on? And I think in my case, like I had a quality of leadership as a kid, like when I was 10 years old, I became the captain, like I said, and all the way through. But I also think it's learned over time. And I think that freshmen, I, again, I haven't reflected on that much, but I think it it's as I'm thinking about it right now, that freshman year playing with that group of guys who, you know, from Chris's perspective, it was like the whole being greater than the sum of the parts, but from my perspective coming in, I remember the first training session. I was like, this is all happening so fast. Every single pass I'm playing is getting picked off. Um, the, the level was just so much higher than what I'd been used to. And I had to then adapt to that and I had to learn from the people around me. So Chris mentioned Derek Buckley. Um, he, as soon as Chris gave me that opportunity to start alongside him, Derek started giving me little tips. So things like using your eyes when you have the ball, stop staring down where you're going to play the passes. And some of it was really simple. Others were a little more savvy, like goal kicks coming towards you. You've got a forward who's bigger than you give them a little nudge with your knee in the back of his leg. Ref's not going to see it and you're going to then be in control of that situation. And those little bits and pieces, those are leadership happening in micro forms, but that's what helped me build as a player. Um, and then as I progressed over the course of the four years, I would say, especially once I got into junior year and was given the opportunity to get in the team and kind of that formal leadership role, it became, I kind of became obsessed with. I want to improve as a player and the way that I can do that is also helping to improve the people around me and helping to empower the people around me. So on the one hand, and Roshan, I talked about this a lot too, because senior year we were co-captains. He was the guy who was a little more, he was quieter on the field, not so vocal. I was very vocal on the field helping to organize the group as we've talked about. But he was really good at going to guys individually who were struggling and having a conversation with them and showing empathy. Will Smith (21:24.79) Um, helping them through their challenge. And I was trying to learn from that too. And, and, and pulling from the experience of when I was a freshman and Derek was a senior and he was giving me those little bits and pieces and Mike D'Annuso would do that as well, Alan Coger, a lot of the guys who were seniors that year in at-baco, um, and so I think like you build based on yes, a mentality and a, and, um, a desire and a self belief, but you need a lot of help along the way. And I was really fortunate to have that group when I was a freshman and then to continue learning from there, from my peers. Um, and I would say that that's something I think it's a bit like cultural, like Chris did a good job of encouraging that within the team. Um, and it's something now that in my current work, like I'm constantly thinking about that with the people with whom I work, the partners we have, um, how do you constantly help other people get better? and bringing in people who are better than you so that you can empower them and you can grow as an individual as well. Scot Cooper (22:29.286) Right. Chris, do you have anything to add to that? Just kind of maybe your strategies of bringing that out in Will. I mean, I'm sure you probably saw it, you know, but how did you kind of pull that out of him to give him the confidence as a young guy with a group full of seniors? Chris Norris (22:51.119) I mean, I think it was as simple as making the statement that Will mentioned to the group that, hey, this is what we're doing. And look, if you do that, at that time, if we did that, if we stuck Will in there, and I mean, I was very clear that the reason that Will was getting into the team is that we needed somebody to be vocal. We didn't really, all those guys, for as good as they were as players, were not particularly vocal in terms of organizing. during the game. And I really felt, or the staff felt at the time, that this group had such potential and that we really were just missing that one piece. We just needed a guy to be back there and kind of pull it together vocally and thought that Will could do it, even though he was a freshman, as long as people supported it. And that was really the primary focus, you know, was just getting the other guys to be okay with that and recognize that, hey man, you know, We're all here trying to win and pull in the same direction. And you just, I'm telling you that this freshman can help us get there if you just listen to what he's saying. And the guys, you know, they were great. They put their egos aside for anyone that had an ego and they just realized that, hey, we want to succeed and you know, whether it's this freshman who's going to be have this kind of role. which you typically find in older players or not, like we're okay with that. We're just gonna get on with it and hopefully he's good enough to do what, you know, the staff is asking and ultimately it worked out that way. So. Scot Cooper (24:32.978) Yeah. Scot Cooper (24:37.31) What other highlights do you want to hit in your career before we move on to stuff after school? Norris, anything to stick out to you? Will Smith (24:43.4) Hmm. Chris Norris (24:46.955) Well, I think there's a couple of interesting things that. Chris Norris (24:53.391) I, we haven't necessarily, you know, Will and I have talked a lot over the years and I don't know that we've necessarily explored these two things that much. I know one of them we have sort of, but I think what is, was really helpful in addition to like Will's family dynamic, the fact that he played golf and knew what it was like to sort of be on his own and have to like, you know, as a, an individual sport participant. And I remember this from when I wrestled. It's like. There's nowhere to turn, you know, you don't you can't rely on other people you have to be on all the time or you're gonna lose basically, you know, and I think golf is such a taxing sport demanding sport mentally that probably really furthered wills ability to lead in a team sport. And look, not everybody is necessarily going to have that opportunity, but I do I do think that it. In an age now where people specialize so much earlier, it does sort of beg the question, like how much other experience is too much and how little is too little? I think kids should try other things, they should experience other sports and other dynamics, especially that kind of contrast where you're going from an individual sport to a team sport. I think that was really helpful and useful for Will. Will Smith (26:18.51) Can I Chris, can I jump on that? Cause it's interesting that I've actually, I've never really thought about it from a mental perspective, but 100% it made me more resilient. I found playing in team sport environments so much easier. Like, like you said, golf is a really, really tough game mentally. And it's probably the reason I didn't succeed to the extent that I hoped in golf was that it was, I found it so difficult to be on my battling through the adversity that happens in just 18 holes. And on the flip side then when I would go into the team environment, it was like, man, I've got these other 10 guys around me who are there to support me and I'm there to support them and it just, it felt like I was, you know, I wasn't carrying the entire load. And so that I agree that probably made me more resilient as well in team, in like tough team sport environments. I still felt like I could get through that because I had that mental experience in other sports. The other thing I would say, what I've always thought about, this is like really simple, um, physical attributes that come from playing other sports, but. When I wanted to hit a cut on the golf course, like a left to right shot as a right-handed player, I had to swing in a certain way to make the ball spin in turn left to right. And when I would get on the field, like this was happening when I was in middle school, maybe, and I was learning that in golf and I wanted to start hitting like a back spinning long ball and in soccer, it was the exact same thing in my mind. And so it became really simple. If I wanted to, um, if I was taking a free kick and I was trying to bend it over the wall, it was a similar process in my mind to trying to hit like a hook around a tree. And so that's the stuff that I've actually thought about a lot is like playing those different sports, um, gave me tools in my mind about like, and like, I could see what I was trying to achieve. Whereas if I was just learning that on the soccer field, it might've been, you know, more difficult. Um, but I've never thought of it. So from a physical perspective, I've thought about that a lot. And I think it's really important that kids here, I agree with you, Chris, like that they're pursuing multiple sports and, um, they're able to, to kind of cross train and learn. Will Smith (28:31.494) from one sport over to the other. And then certainly, yeah, that dynamic of team versus individual sport is a really interesting one that I think gave me more resilience. Chris Norris (28:41.687) Yeah, I mean the other thing that I was going to mention was... So Will's sophomore year, we had a great season as freshman year. Sophomore year, I think we were like, we ended up maybe a game over 500, something like that. But we played a really tough schedule and we had graduated those really influential seniors, 10 of them. We brought in a good freshman class, but they were young and it was a young group overall. So that year, probably the staff's expectations were a little bit lower. We feel like we did pretty well. We certainly hoped to build on that year, and Will's junior year was not good. There were a lot of things happening. Will, we did one of these with Josh West a while back, and he admitted to being not entirely focused at that point in his career, and I don't think he was alone in that group. But in any event, I think Will's a guy who has so much self belief that he, you know, much like me, felt like he would always be able to find the button to push. And neither he nor the staff or me specifically were able to, you know, we pushed a lot of buttons that year and we never found the right one, you know, and so that was a really disappointing year. But that may be, you know, one of Will's. biggest growth periods I'm guessing is, you know, trying to figure out how to lead when seemingly nothing you do is working. Will Smith (30:23.658) Yeah, I agree with that 100%. I also think like one of the takeaways I had from that season now I'm thinking about it was momentum was so critical, especially in this shortened college soccer season that we have. So you're playing every three or four days. And if you have like two moments in a row in two games where something negative happens, and you end up maybe getting to draw on a loss, like three days later, you're on the field again. And that's with you mentally. And so one of the things that I personally tried to bring in senior year, I'd also had the experience of, I, I went to Liberia the summer before my senior year for the entire, um, the entire summer. And we can talk about like that started my, my professional journey. Um, but I think I'd gotten a lot of perspective as well from that trip. And, and, um, up until then, I think like the college soccer season had been like so paramount in my, my mind, and it was like the end all be all. and coming into that senior season with one, that perspective of, okay, momentum is critical. And if we have a bad moment, we need to address it right off the bat because there's only three days until the next game. Um, and I'm not talking like immediately after the game, you got to let those emotions simmer, but the next day having a conversation with the group and sometimes having to do that as a player and not having the coaches around is really important. Um, but then also having the perspective that I'd had from going on. doing that three month bit of work that I'd done in Liberia, I think, like also shifted my mindset to this is an absolute privilege that we have to be in this position and let's do everything we can to soak it up and enjoy it and achieve. So going into that senior year, I think I had like a bit of a shifted mindset personally as well, which probably helped in my leadership style and brought out like positivity and encouragement and empowerment for the guys around me. Scot Cooper (32:20.23) Yeah, let's pick on Josh West a minute. I mean, he told the story. So no, but in all seriousness, like he mentioned you and Roshan, you kind of like took him under your guy's wings and brought him along. And what was your thought process there as a leader? You knew that he had some talent probably and that you needed him in a way. And- Will Smith (32:24.039) I'm sorry. Scot Cooper (32:49.95) So how were you, like an immature way, obviously you weren't immature at that point, but would be like, come on dude, I don't think you handled it in the, you didn't deride him or anything like that, you just kinda, you nurtured him in a way. So what gave you the wherewithal to do that? Did you learn it from other guys in your path? Will Smith (32:57.271) Yeah. Will Smith (33:08.982) Yeah. Will Smith (33:16.462) I think, yeah, I love that guy. I haven't talked to Josh in so long and I need to. We knew that whole class, the class below us, was super talented. Chris has already mentioned that. So much talent around us. And eventually, I think that talent shone through, especially that my senior year. And in some cases it was right off the bat. Michael Tiemann became my center back partner right when he came in and we had this awesome partnership for three years. Um, I think one of the things that I learned over the course of probably that junior year in particular was that. There's no one form of leadership works for every single person that you need to personalize the experience in some way, you got to understand who you're talking to and what their background is and what they care about and what they're struggling with or. um, why they're having success, whatever situation it might be in. So again, I think Roshan was really good at that. Uh, he really understands people quickly. And, um, I was learning on the fly and, uh, and then you have the, like, weirdly when you're in college age matters, right? Because maybe it's just that hierarchy of freshmen, sophomore, junior, senior, but having a conversation with a Josh West versus having a conversation with a Chris Perez, who was the year above me and then became my year. was different because Chris was older than me. And so I had to navigate that conversation differently than the one with Josh. And I think, I don't know if I would characterize it as taking Josh under our wing, but we knew that he was hugely important for us as a player. Like he could be our best player. I really believed that at the time. And in many ways at times he showcased that. But probably just needed some encouragement and he wasn't somebody who needed to be kind of kicked up the butt. There are some people like I think I responded well to if Chris, Norris never really yelled, but if he yelled at me in a way, it fired me up and I would respond well to that. And other people might cave in. And I think Chris also is really good at figuring out who responds to what. Josh was not somebody who needed to be yelled at. If he got yelled at, he would cave in. And Will Smith (35:33.194) And maybe, you know, the voices in his head would start going and then it wasn't going to be, um, the result that you ultimately are looking to achieve, which is getting the best out of the person. So I think we just had a couple of conversations with him about, you know, what, what he was struggling with, what he could, where he could improve. And, um, and also like built up confidence, you know, people need to hear what their qualities are as well. Um, and I think these, again, like I think about this all the time because This we're talking right now in the context of a college soccer teammate, but this is the exact same thinking and process that you go through when you're talking about an employee or a colleague. Or a partner in life or a family member, you know you got to understand that person understand where they're coming from what their strengths are what their weaknesses are. How you can build up their strengths put them in positions to leverage those how you can address weaknesses by providing support around those and I think like that. my time in college and being a leader on the soccer team helped me build those skills in a way that was really important for me and hopefully for most of the guys that interacted with it, it supported them as well. Scot Cooper (36:41.798) I mean, do you look back in your profession now and say, you know, that was a lesson I learned playing sports? Yeah. Will Smith (36:49.086) 100%. I actually often say that like 50% of what I feel I know today came from sports. And part of that when I say I know is like how to learn as well and how to keep to maintain that mindset of curiosity and always trying to get better. I think that comes from having been an athlete. Scot Cooper (37:09.022) Well, so your athletic career in college started to wind down a little bit. Unless you guys want to talk about more Glory Day stuff. I don't know. Will Smith (37:22.292) We got to mention the, uh, being the number one team in the country twice in eight days. That was a highlight. Senior year we, we went, uh, what was it? It was Creighton and then. Chris Norris (37:30.179) Yeah. Chris Norris (37:34.571) Yeah, we played Creighton at the old Dominion tournament and the week leading into that game, they had beaten someone and or somebody had lost. And so they moved into the number one spot and, uh, you can, you, you can talk about the soccer I was on the sideline. So Will Smith (37:52.996) What was it? We won three, two in overtime, wasn't it? Chris Norris (37:55.935) Yeah, came from behind to equalize and then, you know, got this is that was another like that year was very different. The team and the dynamic was very different from your freshman year. And one of the things about that team was that they're like we didn't play that many players. You know, it was it was a pretty. Set I mean probably the most consistent thing between those two teams is that we were really healthy We didn't incur a lot of injuries and fortunately, you know for a school like us That's got to be part of the equation if we're going to have a good season in most cases, um But I remember the cretin game because at the end of it, you know We had guys pop up and I think albaston scored the goal to tie it to send it to overtime And then the game winner, which was a great goal was ben coffee coming off the bench, you know it Early in the season that old Dominion tournament was hot and the games were demanding and we had to go, you know, I think a little bit deeper into the bench than we might have been a lot of other games that year. And, you know, Ben Coffey gets an opportunity and plays a great ball across and Jeff Bombell, who's a sophomore at that time and probably also, you know, a guy who's trying to break into the team scores the game winner and not a guy who scored many goals in his career. That's my favorite memory of that particular game was not just beat number one, but having a couple guys have some kind of career moments for those guys. Will Smith (39:29.654) Yeah, and I would also say Chris, like, so going back to the point of momentum, so you win that game and then we went to number 24 Elon and, and won away three days later or four days later. And then three days later, we were back in North Carolina to play UNC at UNC. And they were then the new number one. And I just remember getting there and like the whole group had this sense of belief, like we were on this ride of momentum and We felt like we could achieve it and we probably like, you know, looking back on it, we probably had no business winning that game. I don't know. We had like three or four shots and they had a whole lot. If I remember, I just remember being probably more exhausted than any ever game I've ever played. Cause we were chasing the ball so much. But we, yeah, we squeaked out a one, nothing win. And, um, and I think again, that just comes down to like, what's the mindset of the group? Scot Cooper (40:15.43) You were busy. Will Smith (40:26.286) going into that moment and and how do you then ride a momentum wave like that and if it's going the other way, how do you halt it? Those were things that we were always thinking about. But yeah, that was I mean, that was probably that's one of my best memories looking back on William & Mary soccer when we won away at UNC. Scot Cooper (40:46.915) and beating Wake early in history. Will Smith (40:49.952) That was a great moment as well. Yeah. Scot Cooper (40:54.214) Well cool, you guys want to move on to after you graduate? So you mentioned your trip to Liberia. What was that all about? And that obviously, you know, can move us into the next chapter, so to speak. Will Smith (41:11.95) Yeah, I think I was really lucky in my experience at William & Mary in that the soccer was crucial, huge part of my experience. The academics were also a huge part of my experience and set me on on the pathway. So I was a political science major and I thought I wanted to go work on Capitol Hill after school. Went and did an internship on Capitol Hill the summer before my junior year and realized I didn't want to go work on Capitol Hill after that. came back to William & Mary and wasn't really sure what I was going to do. And I saw this course called Politics in Africa, and it was taught by a professor named Phil Ressler. And I just went for it. I didn't really have any ideas. I was just like, let's give this a go. Let's try something new. And I walked into that class, probably with all of the archaic stereotypical perspectives that typically exist for a young white American guy who grew up in Connecticut and doesn't know anything about the African continent. And immediately they were just upended and he started telling stories and, um, in, in the very first class and his perspective and his experiences that were completely reshaping what my perspective was of this continent. And I was immediately hooked. And, um, it was one of those experiences where, you know, folks who have been to university, like you're not necessarily always doing all of the reading, all of the viewing, everything that's required for every course. And in this case, I couldn't get enough of it. And I was reading everything. I was really getting stuck in and halfway through, we did a week on the history between the U S and Liberia, which is a very deep and complex history, very intertwined, and I couldn't believe that I knew nothing about this country. And so I went to a professor wrestler's office hours, and I would also bring this back to like being curious and applying that off the soccer field. And I said to him like, How do I know nothing about this country's history is so intertwined with ours? I want to learn more. And he kind of randomly said, why don't you start by mapping out all the foreign investment projects in Liberia? And so I did that and it led ultimately to this research project where the next summer I went to Liberia, um, through scholar through multiple scholarships from the government department, the Charles center. I mean, it was really an incredible experience for an undergrad to get this sort of these research dollars to go and do this work. Will Smith (43:34.086) And I went to Liberia for three months to do this research for an honors thesis. And I also had applied to do an internship in the U S embassy. Um, the idea of being, I could do my research on the ground. It was very specific, but it was a randomized controlled trial that, um, assess the impact of handheld solar lights on Liberian fishermen. We don't have to get into the details, but that's what the research was. And I was going to be, I knew I was going to be with all these fishermen on the ground, uh, half the day. And I thought, well, if I can get into the embassy and see the flip side and, and get into meetings with ministers of commerce and ministers of, um, you know, foreign affairs, whatever it might be, then I would get both perspectives of this sort of like new interest area that I had. And so that's what I went to do. I, I went to do the internship, went to do the research and obviously I was getting ready for my final season. And, uh, I don't know that Chris was like thrilled that his One of his returning starters was like going to Liberia for three months and with no clear plan for how he was going to train or where he was going to play and all that, but I just kind of, I just went and said, I'm going to figure it out. And so I got there and I was there for 12 weeks and the research and the internship were fantastic. And, um, you know, I could talk about that for days, but I also was trying to stay fit, obviously. And through this kind of crazy turn of events, well, I'll give you a bit of the story. So through my research, I was working really closely with a guy named Shaq Sharif and his brother was like a semi-pro player in Liberia. And so I told him, I'm a college player. I need to try and stay fit. Do you know anywhere I can play? And he said, let me tell my brother. He connected us. His brother started picking me up every Saturday morning at 7am and bringing me to these games that were other semi-pro first division players in Liberia who were just getting together. having a kickabout and with a bunch of the community around. And so first of all, everyone was really confused. Like who is this 21 year old kid who's showing up from the United States? And I had to kind of just like put my head down and start playing and was going to those every Saturday morning. That was the only game time that I was getting and time with the ball. And in the third one, there was a guy on the pitch who was playing center mid, I was playing center back. And we just had this connection right off the bat. Will Smith (46:00.214) Um, in Liberia, especially at the time, there was so much individual talent, like incredible, um, the things that people would do with the ball were just like, it was shocking to me, but there was so little coordination and organization. And as somebody, as we've talked about who liked to organize everybody on the pitch, I found it really frustrating when my center back partner was spending half the match playing striker. And so this guy who was playing center mid really had a clear understanding of the game and. And we didn't speak the whole game, but right at the end, he came to me and said, let me get your number. I'll call you if I have more opportunities to play. I was looking to play more. So I gave him my phone number. Um, and five days later, he calls me and says, do you want to play with George way as team against the Liberian national team right now? And if you don't know George way, he's the only African ever named the FIFA world player of the year, and he's currently Liberia's president. Um, uh, and so I went and obviously I'd grown up. knew who George Weah was, was very excited to go play with them, play against the national team. And it was their tune up for their World Cup qualifier against Senegal. Liberia is a country with about 5 million people. And it's a place where when you get access to one person who has access elsewhere, you can very quickly meet folks who are in like upper echelons of society. So I just kind of very quickly was with all of these guys, including George Weah, and went and played in the match and he came to me afterwards. I could run with them. You know, I was fit. And so he said, if you ever, like, we, we basically need more guys. You can keep coming back every week and training with my group. So all of a sudden I was playing with like George where Christopher Ray played for arsenal, James Devo played for Monaco, all these amazing footballers who were retired, but we're trying to keep playing. And, um, at the time George way was the peace ambassador in the country. And that was his official title. Liberia had a 14 year civil conflict that went from. 1989, 2003. And this was 2013. So it's 10 years on from the end of the civil conflict. And in his capacity as peace ambassador, he decided let's celebrate our 10 years of peace by holding a match called the Liberian peace and reconciliation match. Um, so he invited all of the greatest African players of all time, obviously had connectivity and all of them to come to Liberia and play in this match and celebrate their peace. Will Smith (48:22.73) So Samuel Eto, JJ O'Coach, Roger Mila, Patrick Mboma, I mean, like the legends of the game. He invited Drogba, but he didn't come, unfortunately. And so this is all happening. I mean, I'm talking about like week six of my time in Liberia, all this happening very quickly. And yeah, he invited me to play, which I think was an act of diplomacy, I always say, more than anything to have like the young white American on the field. I didn't belong out there with those guys from a talent perspective. But, uh, I got to play in this match in front of 35,000 people in the national stadium, president of the country. They're, um, all these guys I'd grown up worshiping played for the biggest clubs in the world, and that experience showed me the transformative potential of soccer in the country, the passion and energy young people have for it. And it started my whole journey. I, I subsequently discovered a bunch around. gender inequity and the underperforming education system. And while I was there and I returned to William and Mary with all these takeaways around the massive potential of soccer as an institution in the country, the underperforming education system, gender inequity. And I had ideas about what you could do with that. But I was a kid who'd been studying this stuff for less than a year. And I was really focused on my senior season as well. I was still thinking maybe I could try to play pro. So I was kind of navigating my different opportunities and pursuits. And again, with that kind of curiosity in mind, my professor, Phil Ressler suggested I read as much as I could about Liberia and, uh, read a book by a South African scholar named Johnny Steinberg, which is called little Liberia the book and decided I wanted to study under Johnny to better understand the experience that I'd had in Liberia. And so when I was completing, we were going through our freshman, my senior season. I was applying, Johnny was at the African Studies Center at Oxford University and I was applying to do a master's in African Studies there to better my understanding of Liberia's history and politics and then potentially go and do something with these takeaways that I'd had. And that was really the start of a journey where I finished at William & Mary, immediately went to do a master's in African Studies under Johnny. When I got there, it was the height of Ebola. Liberia was one of the countries most heavily impacted. And Will Smith (50:42.174) this kind of whole sequence of events happened, you know, all everything that I've just described that you couldn't have predicted. And it led to me sitting across the table from Johnny and saying, well, I've got this whole network of Liberian soccer players because of this crazy set of experiences that happened in the aftermath of Ebola, there'll be an opportunity to contribute to the rebuilding process. What could we do? And that was when we said, well, what about. a leadership academy that uses soccer as an incentive for kids to improve in the classroom and break down gender barriers and empower the future leaders of the country who can help solve challenges like Ebola in the future. That was really like kind of the step-by-step sequence of events that happened. And that led to me a year later, October 2015, moving to Liberia and living there for the next five years as my home base and building this academy. Scot Cooper (51:31.71) All right, incredible story, obviously. I mean, it's completely unique and just incredible. And so there's a lot to ask about that whole sequence of events. Scot Cooper (51:51.59) I don't even know where to start. Talk about, get into the Academy that you guys, that you started and if I miss, if there's something more you wanna talk about from that whole experience, please do. But I mean, I just, there's, it's incredible. So talk about how you came to start that, how you brought everyone together, you're organizing, so. Will Smith (52:04.799) Yeah. Will Smith (52:17.546) Yeah. I'll tell you about, I'll give kind of the details of the, the Academy's trajectory and then the trajectory of the organization. And I think maybe I can also think about, um, what, just to make sure that this applies to the previous conversation that we had, like what were the things that maybe I learned as a, as an athlete, as a college soccer player that I tapped into that led to kind of this journey that I went on. Um, so We started with 27 students, 16 boys, 11 girls in one classroom on one soccer field in central Monrovia. We had less than a hundred thousand dollars. We had like no money to do this, but I moved to Liberia and we got started. And the way it started was, um, the kids would be with us from 8 a.m. to 6 p.m. Monday through Friday. Um, they would have, uh, their football training in the morning because the academic class wasn't available. We were renting class space and renting. soccer field, we didn't have our own physical space in the beginning. So they would have soccer training in the morning, um, and then have lunch and a life skills lesson, and then they'd come over to the academic area and we'd have, uh, classes in the afternoon. It was a registered school right from the beginning run entirely by Liberians aside from me. And that was something that was really important to me was that it would be locally led because I would never understand the context in the way that Liberians would, and it was really important that, um, the kids were hearing. from people and learning from people who look and sound like them. And we started really small and not a lot of people gave us a chance to keep going. Nothing like this had ever existed in Liberia, the combination of high quality education and elite soccer training. There are elite schools, there were kind of startup soccer clubs, but there was never that combination of a true full-scale academy. And at the end of the first year, President Sirleaf came to visit and she's an iconic woman. She was the first democratically elected female president in African history. And when she came to visit, it sparked this wave of momentum. I think we had over 300 children apply the next year. We grew from 27 to 47 students. And then William and Mary Ties, Jill Ellis, Al Albert introduced me to Jill right around that time. And Jill was like, dude, I wanna come. Will Smith (54:41.098) Let's do this. So she came to Liberia along with Ashlyn Harris, the former goalkeeper of the U S women's national team in December, 2016, at the start of our second year. And the momentum really grew from there. And, uh, to fast forward, uh, we became residential in September, 2018, rented facilities, and then we eventually bought 10 acres of land and have built the first phase of our campus and the kids moved in there in January, 2021, and, uh, over the course of. You know, the nearly nine years that the organization's been running, we've had more than 20,000 children apply from all over the country. Um, there are currently 161 full-time student athletes. There's a 50 gender equity target, um, in a country that historically referred to as the sport, as a lot of people refer to it as manball. So it's gendered by name. So it was a really big challenge to get girls into the program. And, um, And give them the same opportunities that boys had, but that's something that we've been really lucky to, to pursue and succeed in. And yeah, today the kids live on campus. They have three meals a day. They have full-time academic classes. They have life skills lessons. They have football training every day. Um, and the whole concept is that, and we started by the way, we started with the fourth grade. Today we have grades four through 12. So the kids who started that first year actually graduating this year, which is a crazy concept for me. Um, But the whole concept is that we're not trying to produce professional soccer players. We're trying to produce really great people who will go on to lead in society as doctors, as engineers, as business women, as politicians, whatever it is that they want to pursue. And soccer has really been the hook that has encouraged so many people to apply. And then when they come in, we're giving them this really high quality education so that they can identify things that they're passionate about. And at the same time, obviously we have some kids who are really talented soccer players. So one of the girls actually, uh, blessing Kia, she just became the first one to get a full scholarship to a university show that she's going to Connecticut college in the fall, um, to play soccer and run track, which is pretty cool. So that's the Liberia story. And the other piece of it, which I'll tell really quickly is Will Smith (56:57.834) A few years into it, a couple of philanthropists came to me. We had a quantitative impact evaluation in place with professors from William and Mary and Oxford. So Phil Restler, who I mentioned, became the person who was actually overseeing the evaluation of the program and making sure that we were doing everything that we were trying to do to eventually produce a generation of ethical, empathetic, and entrepreneurial leaders. And the results were strong right from the beginning of the evaluation. So a couple of philanthropists came to me and said, can we take what you're doing in Liberia and do it elsewhere? And so we created a U S based organization, which is called lead edu, um, which would support the organization in Liberia lead Monrovia football Academy, but also seek to replicate the model in other places. And so in 2019, um, at the same time that I was running the one in Liberia lead MFA, I started making several trips to Morocco where one of our key supporters was from and who said he wanted to back it. And, um, our thought process was very different context. Uh, in every way. And if the model could work there, then it could potentially work anywhere. Like the same model that works in Liberia. If it could go to Morocco, then we could bring it anywhere. And we started building and we identified these two really bright young social entrepreneurs, Moroccan social entrepreneurs, who could take it on. And so we created in 2019, Lead Morocco, which is a very similar organization to the one in Liberia. And across the two, there's a total of 282 full-time student athletes now. So that's their three organizations. Um, today I don't have a day-to-day role at any of them. I, I handed off the one in Liberia in 2021 to a really bright young Liberian woman, Sonatraya Isisa. And it's run entirely by Liberians. The one in Morocco is run entirely by Moroccans. And then, uh, we've got our U S based organization. Um, and I just, I sit on the board of all three and still I'm very involved, but don't have that day-to-day role. Um, so that's kind of the quick version of the story of those three orgs. And I think if I just quickly tie it to things that I learned as an athlete and things that I learned in, in university at William and Mary, I always bring it up, but that curiosity was so pivotal. Um, like even the story that I told of getting to play in the game with George Wea and then coming back to William and Mary, I could have just gotten back and said, okay, that was an amazing experience. Will Smith (59:20.81) I'm going to come back to my life here and carry on, but I, that curiosity remained and I just wanted to learn more. And it led to me reading that book by the professor or how I would eventually go study under and, and that those types of moments keep happening along the journey. So I think being really curious, I think I've talked a lot about leading by empowering, um, and I learned that as an athlete and that's something that I've really tried to practice as a professional in my career. So. the stories of Sona taking over lead MFA and Fatima Zara and Sufyan leading in lead Morocco and the team here in the US taking the lead. Like those are all conscious decisions that I made in organizations that I helped start to pass on because I felt like the people around me could carry it on and do a better job and why not empower them to do that? So there's a lot of different lessons. I think that directly apply to what you learn as a player. And you don't really know, like, you know, I was 18, 19, 20, 21. I was just a kid trying to compete and be as good as be the best version of myself as I could be on the field. But I was learning all of these lessons that kind of by osmosis that then would really apply in the future. Um, so it's maybe just something to reflect on for, for college soccer players or college athletes who are hearing this too, is like. What are the lessons that you're learning as you go here? How can you apply them in other parts of your life? Scot Cooper (01:00:53.862) Yeah, go back to, you know, you had the idea for the academy and, you know, obviously you had to do a ton of legwork and, you know, I'm sure everyone was like, this is a great idea, but, you know, who did you tap into? Who were some of the key players? And then what, like, where did you get to the point where you're like, okay, this is going to happen and I'm not taking no for an answer kind of moment. Will Smith (01:01:12.727) Yeah. Will Smith (01:01:21.678) Hmm. So go back to October of 2014. This is right when I, my master's in nine months. It was very quick. So I was just, I just arrived in Oxford and I had the kind of initial concept of Ebola was raging. I was hearing all the stories from the guys with whom I'd done my research and, and played soccer with the previous summer in Liberia. I built these, these networks and people would say, especially at the time, people were like, why don't you do something like this in Hartford, like close to where you're from in Connecticut? And the reality was that I had these like actual friendships and relationships in Liberia that I didn't have anywhere else. And so I was kind of witnessing that. And there was one particular moment that involved a particular community in Monrovia where it felt like there was a really, really poor leadership decision that was made that led to uh, an impromptu protest and led to a 15 year old boy being shot and killed by, um, by the military. And it just like kind of set me off into it. And I'd done my research in that community. So I really understood that specific community to the extent that you could in a few months, but certainly wouldn't have made the decision to. Kind of box them in with the military there in quarantine fashion. So I think like witnessing all of that got my brain turning around. Okay. What, what? What could we potentially do based on the relationships that we'd build? And when I say we, I think also about the guy who I eventually co-founded lead MFA with, who was the guy had played in that pickup game, who introduced me to George, where he turned out to be a former national team player in Liberia and, um, and that's where the concept came of let's use soccer as an incentive mechanism, let's use it as a hook and, um, let's use that to then help improve academic performance and break down gender barriers and, and empower future leaders. And so like, It was still an outlandish concept, I think, to people in my close community. But what I did was I started socializing it immediately. I was talking to, I probably talked to 150 different people over the course of three, four months. I think everybody I could speak to at university or within the master's course, friends, family members, advisors, you know, my professors. Will Smith (01:03:43.446) Um, I was asking them what they thought making tweaks and, and adjustments. And I think also one of the, like, one of the pieces of that, that I didn't really mean, but then became a reality was once you've talked to so many people about it, you feel like, okay, I've got to, I've got to live up to what I'm, what I'm talking about here. So like, I've got to, I've got to act. And so I felt a bit of a sense of responsibility to push it forward. And, uh, when it really became real, was when we got our first bit of funding. So I think it was in February or March, 2015, I was introduced to the chair of Saracens, the rugby club in London. And they had a foundation that supported rugby and soccer-based initiatives around the world. And he introduced me to their head of their foundation and said, if you can convince him, we'll back you. And I made three bus trips from Oxford to London to meet with the head of the foundation. And, uh, the last one at Allianz park, their stadium, they committed to get $45,000. And at that time as a, I was 20, I just turned 23. That was a lot of money. So I walked out of the, out of the office and I got, I fist pumped. I was so excited. And then I had this sobering moment where I was like, Oh my gosh, I cannot screw this up now. You know? Um, and I think that was kind of the like point of no return and. You're giving people your word and you really want to maintain that. And, uh, and then that only grows, you know, you start, you get, like we went in, I gave a talk at my high school. I came to William Mary gave a talk. I went to DC, did an event, went to New York, did an event with friends. And we scraped together the a hundred thousand dollars when I moved to Liberia. Um, right after which I moved to Liberia and, and then you have kids in your stead. You know, we had 27 students who were relying and believing in us in our ability to build an institution. And at that point, it's not just them, it's their families. It's, it's much bigger than the initial concept that you have. So you really feel like you can't, you can't let them down and you're going to do everything possible to make it work. And, um, so it's kind of like the early. Will Smith (01:06:01.938) stage. And I think a lot of it, again, like I would bring back, overcoming adversity, being resilient, recognizing that challenges will come to you and how do you manage them and getting back to balance in your own mind mentally, things that I learned through sport were really relevant, especially in that first year. Scot Cooper (01:06:22.942) because I'm sure you didn't just say, I'm gonna start a school, and then all of a sudden there's a school. There's a lot more nos than yeses probably for a while. And I was thinking, how did you get kids to apply? How did you get parents to trust you guys? What was that process? Yeah. Will Smith (01:06:29.663) Absolutely. Will Smith (01:06:42.698) Yeah, absolutely critical that I started this with Liberians, right? Like I would have had no idea how to start. So, um, again, different pieces of the puzzle kind of came together in a way that you couldn't have predicted, but there was a guy named Jenkins von Gain, who was the political specialist at U S embassy, Monrovia. And, uh, he had kind of like taken me under his wing when I was an intern, you know, a year and a half, two years before. So of course, when I started thinking about this, I reached out to Jenkins and said, what do you think? And. So as we were building, he then was the perfect person to say, Jenkins, here's what we're thinking. Can you introduce me to this person? Can you introduce me to that person? And he just had this Rolodex of everybody in the country. Um, so there were two artificial turf pitches in Monrovia at the time. And one of them was owned, uh, by Rob Sirleaf, the son of the president. And I had no idea how I could approach Rob to have a conversation about, could we, you know, put our new academy. on his pitch on a daily basis. But Jenkins introduced me to him and went to the meeting with me. And, you know, that started a relationship where Rob, we use their pitch for the first three years of the Academy. So I think it was just like having and then in terms of us about recruitment, a common form of marketing and advertising in Liberia, at least at the time, was to go around in a car with a massive speaker on top of the car and a like a microphone and make announcements. And so we did that. I was in the car making announcements, we're driving through the streets and we leveraged like the guys, the Liberians with whom I was starting this, they got their friends involved and people wanted to see this happen. So we were passing out flyers and Monrovia is not, the central Monrovia is not all that big. You can probably walk it in 25 minutes in any direction. So we literally went down every street, handing out flyers and... There were about 250 kids who applied in the first year, which shows you that there was a real need for this, right? That people wanted it. And then, you know, you start building momentum. The president comes to visit, there's press around it, and that's how it just kind of slowly grew. Scot Cooper (01:08:59.662) And were you able to rely back on some of those friendships you made from the match you played in? Will Smith (01:09:01.645) Thank you. Will Smith (01:09:06.258) Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, so again, my co founder of the organization was the guy who had introduced me to George way and helped along the way we spoke to George way. So at the time he became senator, I think it was in 20. It was in 2015. Yeah. And then he was elected president 2017. So prior to him becoming senator, we had a conversation with him and he was very kind. So do you have my backing? And then when he became president, you know, we had At one point, 14 of our girls came to the U S and played at the USA cup. Minnesota United paid for it. It was this very random thing. And they went and they actually won the tournament, which we never went a million years would have thought would happen because they'd never played girls their age. And so when they returned, he publicly congratulated them. There was kind of a little parade for them. And it normalized the participation of girls in soccer and the sport and the country and the library football association credit, you 17 women's national team for the first time. So there were a lot of different, really interesting things that led to real systemic change. And that was because in part, we had the support of some of those folks from right at the beginning. Um, so absolutely. I think it was also like mapping. Once it got, once we were clear on what we wanted to do and what we wanted to achieve and what types of programs we would have in order to execute against that, we had to map out, okay, where, what types of partners do we need and where do we have access and how can we get there? And, um, yeah, I, it, a lot of it was persistence and kind of hustle. which I think is the case in any entrepreneurial endeavor. And then certainly some luck along the way as well. Scot Cooper (01:10:38.738) So you created a second Academy in Morocco and, you know, what have been some of the challenges? It's a little bit different culture than in Liberia. You know, in that gender equity is kind of where I'm thinking, you know, what were the challenges there to make that happen, to keep that part of the vision? Will Smith (01:10:47.926) Very different, yeah. Will Smith (01:10:58.91) Yeah, Morocco is such a, it's such an interesting place. It's I, Morocco is, I would recommend to everybody go to both Liberia and Morocco. Morocco is a beautiful country, incredible people, amazing food. Um, and it's a really a country on the rise and it's not just what you see. I'm not just saying that because they went to the semi-final of the world cup in 2022, they really, it's, um, it's a country that is just full of potential. And is already starting to see out that potential. I mean, you go to Rabat, you feel like you're in a truly global major city. It's amazing. So very different from Liberia in a lot of ways. Yeah. And I mean, from an income perspective, religious perspective, so Liberia is about 85% Christian, 15% Muslim. Morocco is a majority Muslim country. And so there are different pieces that were Very different, but I think what we were really good at was empowering people locally who understood those contextual differences and could apply components of the model that made sense for that context and then make adjustments where needed. And so I would also bring this back to like understanding people and where people's strengths are and weaknesses are and speaking to those strengths. I think that's been something that's been really important for me personally when identifying folks with whom I wanna work. And so Sufyan and Fatima Zahra who run have run lead Morocco since the beginning with the support of there's the president, Majid Suleymani and then Imadiz Amran was the original kind of backer of this. Um, they've just been really critical in taking the model and applying it to that completely different context and understanding where to press buttons and where not to. So an example of this would be, um, the stadium in which we operate in Morocco. We operate in rented facilities still. hopefully soon we'll be building a campus. To that point, Majid, who's president, would say that there had never been women sitting in the stands to watch training or watch a game. And because Fatima Zahra was so smart and so talented at understanding the different dynamics locally, she and Sufiyana eventually convinced the mothers of the kids who were at Lead Morocco to come in and see them train. And then they started coming every day. Will Smith (01:13:18.686) And so it just was like this kind of transformation of, um, of culture and opportunity for the kids, because then, especially for the girls who were on the pitch, that made them feel like it was, um, it was something that they were meant to do. And I think also, you know, Morocco has, has undergone serious change over a short period of time to the extent that now their women's national team also performed exceptionally in the 2023 world cup and, um, and that shifted. So, yeah, I think. challenges, very different types of challenges compared to in Liberia. Easier to, for example, raise money locally, there's more industry and, uh, bigger corporates there. Uh, but equally like different dynamics that we've had to adapt to. And, um, again, I think like, if for anybody thinking about doing work internationally, probably the most important lesson that I've had is. is the lesson that you have to work with people who come from those contexts, who understand them, because you can bring your ideas and, and models and things that have worked in other places. But at the end of the day, you're never going to understand the place in the way that the folks with whom you're partnering do. Scot Cooper (01:14:32.606) So now you've transitioned away, not away, but you're not running the day-to-day of those places. And so we'll tune out. Will Smith (01:14:39.233) Yeah. Will Smith (01:14:42.634) Yeah. So, uh, about two and a half years ago off the back of doing this work, basically the, the kind of backstory is through the work with lead, the three different organizations, there were different, there were different professional athletes who started to support our work and they started coming to me and saying, how'd you do what you did with lead? I want to do something like that in my community. And I'm not really sure how to start. And I was feeling a bit of a pull back home and a desire to do more, um, locally. And so. Uh, I just started organically thinking about how could potentially support these athletes and, um, and then the pandemic hits. So this is actually, those conversations started in September, 2019 pandemic hit. And then George Floyd was murdered. And when George Floyd was murdered, one of those athletes, Alina Beard is a former WNBA player. She called me and was like, I want to start now. Um, I have the backing of the Andre Agassi foundation. Can you help? And so I gathered a group of friends, including Sam Pressler. who's a former, another William Mary alum, and Shonda Cooper is another William Mary alum. And we got together and basically incubated her foundation for her called the 318 Foundation, and leveraged a lot of the lessons that we had from being in the field on the ground, doing our own nonprofit work and applied them to these folks with real platforms and voices. And really enjoyed that work and decided then to build a company off the back of that. So it's called Charter Oak Advisory. And it's a strategic advisory firm essentially designs, implements, and evaluates impact programs for companies, for families, for high profile individuals, for other nonprofits. And the idea is to drive as much social change as possible through folks with real platforms and voices. And then for businesses also help them realize that this type of work helps to improve their core business outcomes over time. So we've been working with groups like StubHub. Black players for change, which is every single black player in major league soccer. So still a lot of connectivity into the soccer world. Um, Gotham FC, the professional women's soccer team, just helping them leverage their core capabilities to drive change in their communities and also support their core outcomes. So that's what I'm doing today. Um, and again, still have tons of connectivity with the organizations in Liberia and Morocco and here. Uh, and I'd say, yeah, just kind of transitioning into a space where I can Will Smith (01:17:08.874) be home a little bit more. Got married last year, so spend more time with my wife and let's still try to create as much positive change in the world as possible. Scot Cooper (01:17:22.708) Will there be more academies to come? Is that part of the game plan? Will Smith (01:17:27.146) We are figuring that out right now. It's a question of funding. If we have the funding, it's coming. Where our parameters are essentially, we'll go somewhere if we have access to the financial resources to make it happen and the right relationships to make it happen. Cause everything I've just described, especially in Liberia, the whole story I've told you, it's so reliant on having access. But yeah, I'd say it's possible. Scot Cooper (01:17:54.91) It's kind of tough to duplicate the first one, huh? Yeah. Will Smith (01:17:57.254) Yeah, it is. It is. I mean, you don't have that specific set of experiences, right? So it's a little bit more starting from scratch, depending on the situation. But there's a there's definitely some opportunities. So we'll see. Scot Cooper (01:18:13.598) Cool. What did I miss? Scot Cooper (01:18:20.582) Nothing. Alright, Norris, you got anything else? Chris Norris (01:18:24.884) Now just Chris Norris (01:18:28.515) And we're very proud to claim Will. And we don't take any credit for it, but we're happy that he represents us extremely well. Scot Cooper (01:18:39.954) Yeah. I think it all goes back to him understanding what buttons to push with Josh West, really. I mean, it's probably where it all began. Chris Norris (01:18:51.855) Those were hard lessons learned. Will Smith (01:18:54.121) All comes back to Josh West. Scot Cooper (01:18:55.966) Yeah. Cool. Well, I really appreciate it. Thank you for so much time. It's a real pleasure to have you on here and hear that story. And I mean, it's inspiring and kids need to look up to what you've done for sure. Chris Norris (01:18:56.079) I'm going to go to bed. Will Smith (01:19:14.774) Thanks, Scott. Thanks for having me on, I appreciate it. Scot Cooper (01:19:16.486) Yep. Yeah. Hold on one sec.